Overnight summer Bible camps

[DDofEve]

And Madre, you are certainly entitled to have that view! I am soooo sorry for that experience!

Being involved to the Nth degree is one of the pros for us. We know a lot of the counselors personally as well as the staff. Would you mind if I asked Boss and Shirley that question and posted it on here?

[Madre de 3]

Originally Posted by DDofEve

And Madre, you are certainly entitled to have that view! I am soooo sorry for that experience!

Being involved to the Nth degree is one of the pros for us. We know a lot of the counselors personally as well as the staff. Would you mind if I asked Boss and Shirley that question and posted it on here?

Please do!

I, of course, have my dh's permission to share this with all of you...because as he puts it, "There is no shame in what happened to me...only shame for those who perpetrated and covered it up."

I don't want to be a downer...but, my dh's parents were involved to the Nth degree as well. They knew everyone, helped organize it, hand picked the chaperones, etc. Most of the victims I know today had parents that were involved to the Nth degree as well. No one is immune from this.

If your church handles things openly, honestly, and proactively and with accountability and transparency (I'm sick of those buzz words - but you get the idea)...then you will greatly reduce the risk of children being in harm's way. Do they do a background check of EVERY person helping with the camp and make that available to the parents? Have they done a background check on you? That's just one example. One of the pastors we talked to about their mission camp said, "We've never had any issues with that, and we have policies in place to deal with that." What policies? He couldnt' articulate them and neither could the people running the camp...sorry, not a good enough answer for me. As much as I wanted to give them the benefit of the doubt...I couldn't. That's "the head in the sand" approach...and that puts kids in unsafe situations.

I also have to add here that I see a lot of parents make their church, clergy, and it's staff the end all-be all...they LOOOOVVVVEEEEE their pastor or they "think the world" of their youth director...and that's wonderful and great...and I know I'm a cynic about this...but, it really sets up an environment for the youth...that if something inappropriate DID happen, chances are they wouldn't share it with the family (because they hold that person in such high esteem, and/or they think there must be something wrong with them because that person is so wonderful and everyone else seems to love them and/or the worse case scenario...they lose their faith in everything they've been taught about God. And then we all know what happens when a perpetrator isn't discovered right away...they go on to perpetrate again. And the long-term effects are far-reaching and worse.

I know I'm jaded about this...but we don't get a second chance to protect our children in this area...and if the/your church doesn't have EVERY base covered...I wouldn't be sending my precious child anywhere near a camp that doesn't discuss this topic openlly and with transparency. In fact, they should be answering the questions before the parents are even having to ask. jmjo...just my jaded opinion.

Predators hide out in plain view.

If this is too heavy of a topic for this forum, mods move it or delete it.

I don't want to make everyone a skeptic...just want other parents to be informed, aware, and make decisions based on reality, not what we "think" is good.

[DDofEve]

HERE HERE!

I know that at our church we did a background check on EVERYONE, the Pastors first as examples.

I do not agree with holding people up and putting them on pedestals. Esp with our children.

One of the reasons I am this way is because of my background too.

By talking about this I hope you do not feel as though I am turning it back and around on you.

Anyway.

[Buckeyes]

Yes--we got back tonight.

It's $90 for the week (Sun pm thru FR pm), and there aren't any "extras". It is staffed by all volunteers from our church and sister churches: counselors, nurses, pastors and all the "help" for kitchen, etc. Devotions twice a day, messages for jr and sr, Bible memorization, etc. in addition to the swimming, crafts, games and so on.

And I think it could be done for less $$, personally. Oh--the church had a Bible memory program in the winter, and kids who completed the whole thing got a scholarship of $20 off camp registration, so I paid only $70 for each of my kidsters.

They are allowed to go at age 8 if they are used to sitting for a message; otherwise must be 9yo, up through sr. high.

My dd cried on the way home--she will be so "down" for a while, then she'll be already talking about next year. This is truly the highlight of her year. Ds has a great time, too, but for dd...not sure what it is, but she just loves it. Has talked of being a counselor, and we'll head her training in that direction.

[Madre de 3]

Originally Posted by DDofEve

By talking about this I hope you do not feel as though I am turning it back and around on you.

Not at all.

I'm glad to know there are churches that "get it." Many do not.

[Bronte73]

Originally Posted by Madre de 3

I voted never.

My dh was sexually abused at an overnight church camp.

The first thing I'd ask besides what fun things the kids would be doing would be WHO supervises the supervisors, clergy, chaperones, and staff and then what happens if there is an inappropriate situation...how is that handled?

I haven't come across a church camp that has had a sufficient answer to that question yet.

Of course, even if I felt comfortable with it, I doubt my dh would ever allow his children to be in those situations...no matter how "wonderful" they seem.

That's my clouded viewpoint.

This would be one of the reasons I wouldn't send my kids. Pediphiles are attracted to places like camps and the scary thing is, most pediphiles have molested multiple times before they are caught for the first time. I just read too much doing the research for that article to be comfortable unless they were older.

[DDofEve]

Originally Posted by Madre de 3

Not at all.

I'm glad to know there are churches that "get it." Many do not.

ok, good!

So I talked to Boss this morning when I went to pick up my son and nephew. He said that everyone, if they want to step foot on the campus to work, volunteer or otherwise (speakers, etc) HAVE TO have background checks and Boss talks to at least 3 professional references before they are givein permission to be at camp at ALL.

The parents need to go through 3 different checkpoints to take their children FROM the camp on going home day.

Children without shot records are unable to come to camp at ALL.

What else? Oh. The most important thing: THE CAMP HAS TO REPORT ALL INCIDENCES to the local authorites if ANYTHING AT ALL happens or is suspected of happening. I know of one alleged incident myself and it was disproved by the authorites and dismissed. Boss says they are "mandated" (whatever that means) to report.

No one's perfect, but there are checks in place where we are, PTL!

[mommyof2monkeys+princess]

I just sent my boys for the first time just finished the 3rd grade It is $250 a kid so I paid $500 then there are some extra charges and snack shop so we sent them with $40 each so basically $300 a kid.

We do plan on paying for camp every year. If I did have to choose I would not worry about the elementary year but I would do whatever it takes to afford the trips once they are in youth group. I can't imagine the majority of the youth group going but my kids.

Tammy

[Flautista]

When our children's and teens' camps had volunteers from our church we gladly sent our older two. The workers were people we could trust. When the church started reserving weeks at Bible camps that had strangers as volunteers we stopped letting our kids go. Apparently a lot of other parents felt the same way because there is no church-sponsored camp of any kind anymore.

[citylights]

Yep. Dh & I both attended the same camp growing up. Our children now attend. Our first dd was going into 4h gr. the first yr. she attended this camp. Dd#2 was going into 2nd gr. when she first attended. Ds was 4, I believe, when he first attended with us at "family camp." My kids have been attending ever since.

Family Camp runs between $1000-1500 depending on the lodging that we choose. Gas + tolls cost us about $75. We take a couple hundred bucks for spending. Camp is in a resort town. We get some free time and a date night out.

Paid $500 this summer for dd to attend high school camp. Ds is going into 6th gr. We paid a little less for him, about $400. My kids get $40 spending money. This covers a cd & a t shirt + some canteen money. Camp runs Sunday thru Saturday.